Star Citizen is inexcusable at any stage of development.
I think people willfully miss the point that “pre-alpha”, “alpha”, “beta”, etc. are just labels. Even though they have fairly normalized use in the software development world, there is no governing authority for their use, so you can claim your “game” is in whatever stage you feel like calling it. So that’s one aspect - that calling it “alpha” doesn’t really mean anything.
But it goes deeper than that. “Alpha” is supposed to denote relative progress, not be a catch-all excuse for anything and everything that is wrong with a project. “It’s in alpha” doesn’t explain why Star Citizen is a complete top-to-bottom piece of complete industry-destroying shit. The lack of quality in Star Citizen is an empirical observation that doesn’t stop being true because the game is “in alpha.”
Star Citizen is really fucking bad. Even if all of what they’re generously calling “bugs” were miraculously fixed it wouldn’t make Star Citizen good, or game, and it would not make Chris Roberts less of a fraud, or CIG less incompetent. Star Citizen is pure steaming shit, and no categorical label can save it, or excuse the state of its existence.
TheAgent
its just nuts watching the alpha prototyping for horizon: zero dawn and comparing it to star citizen
the combat was absolutely nailed, the rest of the game looked like something from the ps1 days, but the combat, discovery and all major mechanics were in and functioning as the rest of the game was built around it
Anyone who actually understands game development knows that you do all that stuff first, because it is fundamental. Without gameplay mechanics, you don’t have a game. So you get them working first, you make sure they’re solid, and then you do all the rest once you’re sure that you’re not wasting your time
The fact that Chris and friends don’t understand this tells me, more than anything else about the project, that Star Citizen is never going anywhere. Six years in and they don’t even have a prototype. No one knows whether all these planned gameplay systems will work at all, on their own or together, because apart from crate fetching (which is fucking broken), they haven’t been implemented in any way. Not even on paper, if the developers’ rambling about them is any indication
But fuck, this is probably the billionth post about how CIG is doing everything ass-backwards. It just constantly amazes me, is all
Virtual Captain
Step 1: Motion capture
Step 2: Motion capture
Step 3: Motion capture
Step 4: Motion capture
Step 5: Motion capture
Step 6: Well earned vacation
Step 7: Motion capture
Step 8: Work on art assets for several years
Step 9: Nail down the flight model and combat, Add MMO features
Step 10: Emergent gameplay
Broken promises don’t even register anymore unless they have something to do with ships. 3.0 is not even a shadow of its former promised self but, if you ask, this is because it contains much more than what was offered first, it just so happens that it’s “foundation stuff” you cannot see. Rational thinking left the building a while ago, if it ever was there.
But watch them change some weapon mount in chariot from a size 7 to a size 6 for the fireworks to begin.
1st Rule of Thumb: You do not talk about Derek Smart
2nd Rule of Thumb: You DO NOT talk about Derek Smart
3rd Rule of Thumb: If anyone says “stop” or goes limp, that doesn’t mean the crunch is over!
4th Rule of Thumb: Only two releases per year
5th Rule of Thumb: Actually, fuck that, only one release per year
6th Rule of Thumb: No consoles
7th Rule of Thumb: A sale goes on as long as it has to, to pay next months fees and wages
8th Rule of Thumb: If it’s your first day at the cult, you have to pledge!
There was some 10 for the designers where a new guy was describing his job, which included using an internal CIG tool to “build ships”, which was literally an xml editor. I almost fainted.
9. Star Citizen won’t launch in 2018. In fact, Star Citizen will continue to just be a weird meta-game that we’re all supposed to puzzle out. Why are people paying thousands of dollars for digital ships that can’t even be played yet? What’s up with the feud between Chris Roberts and Derek Smart? How come a game that hasn’t even released has its own convention already? These questions are all part of the puzzle–-and that puzzle is the actual point of Star Citizen.
They discuss the fact that CIG is now fast-tracking their Land Claim in-game protection racket scheme. In fact, it’s expected to be brought online before Stanton itself is complete. Erris, confronted by a gigantic flashing warning sign that reads “PAY-TO-LIVE MECHANICS ARE NOW MORE IMPORTANT TO CHRIS THAN BASIC KICKSTARTER PROMISES”, seems briefly troubled. As does Nekhara, who expresses his surprise and that of many others.
But the moment passes, the outrage prompts not anger or despair, just a moment of hopeful bargaining, which then leads to Erris concluding Beta by 2019 because they’ll surely get so much other work done this year.
Did you guys not see and transcribe Tony Z’s ATV appearance yesterday, Relay? With Tony saying Mining was slotted for 3.2 in 6 to 9 months, and even that was described conditionally so as to create a fallback position when they miss it? (Because they always miss it?)
Relay? More like ”Delay”, amirite?
Seriously just rename your show and discuss this week’s news in CIG Delays, Historical Revisions, Outrages, and Warning Signs. Stop apologizing for CIG and start demanding them from Chris for playing the community like chumps and marks. Get on the right side of History and off the wrong side of His Story. The view is so much clearer from over here, Erris. (Read my letter again and see just how reasonable it was along all!)
TheAgent
“I plead the 4th”
“the 4th? you mean the fifth right?”
“nope. the 4th. as in 4th stimpire”
deskeletonization teams burst into the room
G0RF
The silent lurker population here varies but over the course of a given month but includes:
CIG folk like the thread intern, who feels like an old pal or pal-ette at this point (Raises glass, nods understandingly.)
Foundry folk with complicated feelings
Relay folk and other streamers who mostly despise us and believe we are all of one mind controlled by Derek
Friendly Heretics silently monitoring for laughs
Denizens from /SC picking up “intel” from Behind Enemy Lines because LARP!
Exiles from /DS who make screaming at their monitors a part of their daily therapeutic routine
Free-ranging skeptics from other SC discussion hubs like Frontier, MMORPG, 4chan, etc. who carry s back to their preferred SC homes
A few game journos/bloggers
Game industry folk picking up water cooler chatter (“You hear “you can fit all of Skyrim in there” crap? The nerve of that guy.)
LAZRIN!!!, the legend
Ex-CIG folks just having a
If Coutts and Crytek don’t have minions paying $10 yet they probably will once they figure out how much easier the research gets.
And more. Not all at once, not all the time, but regularly enough. Thread is, like Star Citizen, still good.
Scruffpuff
It’s a competing engine because you buy the license from Amazon and not Crytek.
Amazon bought a full license from Crytek, added value to the tech and sell licenses on the value added engine.
CIG bought a limited license from Crytek.
That’s my understanding.
Correct. That people are even questioning this amazes me. It’s a license, and a license indicates a relationship between two parties, in this case CryTek and CIG. Amazon does not figure into it. CIG jumped ship to Amazon specifically because it was nearly the same engine with a better deal, but I don’t think the technicality that some stupid cultists have latched onto (i.e. “It’s the same engine so they didn’t breach license checkmate goonies”) is anything CIG expected to argue, and I still don’t think they’ll try it. They bet everything that CryTek would dissolve, and they did everything they could to accelerate that event. CIG never intended to honor that contract, like everything else they do. When CryTek pulled a “RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE” CIG was put on the defensive.
The only way out for CIG is to use the same tactic they’ve used on every aspect of this project from its inception: fraud. Expect them to use lots of attempts at Hollywood courtroom tactics that don’t actually exist in the real world (“gotcha” moments in the fine print, “getting off on technicalities”, a surprise witness has something to say right before the gavel drops, etc.) whose hilarious dismissals will fuel this thread for another year at least.
This is the bit where Erin talks about Space Combat.
oh my… where to begin where to begin…
So first of all he doesnt even talk much about the issue. he just adopted Chris way of filling time with words without actually giving out information. What he does give out though is enough to redeem that CIG has learned absolutely 0, Nada , Nothing from the disastrous combat experiences following 2.6.
Notice how Erin, after strolling around the main issue, brings up that the only point he wants to adress in the combat experience is the “shooting at pixels” bit. That is quote on quote the same shit that Chris ruled down in 2.6 and that ruined the little bit of consistency in Combat design that was left at the end of 2016.
As i wrote last summer, the Dynamics of Space combat in regards to good gameplay are one of the most complicated and technical topics and require excellent knowledge of both vehicle dynamics and gameplay mechanics as well as game experience. What Erin did is just closing the Circle to 1 1⁄2 Years ago. CIG, as a company, has learned absolutely nothing on the matter. And whatever comes out of the lawsuits, it is absolutely clear that this company does not have the Quality in house that is needed to even design a good combat model and experience, let alone balancing and porting it into an open world MMO enviroment.
Notice how Erin fills this obvious lack of understanding for the matter with regards to his “former Games” which are all but meaningless for the matter of Space combat and vehicle dynamics especially in a multiplayer enviroment.
Again, just like in 2.6 all they can think of regarding vehicle dynamics is speed. that there is literally hundreds of parameters going into the IFCS to create just the basic flight characteristics (let alone the high order combat characteristics) seems to be not only a complete mistery to the one guy who is supposed to make a game out if this, he seems to be completely unaware of them. And this is 4 Years after the initial release of the spaceflight and combat module. Its like time is ticking backwards and the more we progress the less CIG understands about basic gameplay and design. Amazing
A first step? the team keeps on working on it? this is the same team that couldnt do basic vehicle dynamics… feck… high school physics at the end of 2016 and judging by the state of 3.0 and especially this RTV, they have not learned a singe bit.
G0RF
Not to pile on here, but I think they may want to reconsider their camera positioning and Erin’s posture, too. Didn’t exactly project confidence.
Get on that, Thread Intern. Tell Chris it was a directing failure. He’ll know exactly what you mean.
Beet Wagon
Wait, hold up, is that an actual screencap from ATV? I assumed someone had photoshopped it. That’s fucking terrible lmao
Everyone making fun of this picture is incapable of appreciating the art of filmmaking.
I mean, just look at how this shot was framed: the lack of depth echoes the state of the game. As does the complete absence of any sense of perspective (is the man in the foreground enormous and Erin very small? Your eye cannot reveal the truth: you can only trust your heart!). And then there’s the way that vague impressions of exciting imaginary space combat scenes exist all around, and the subtle clue hidden in the way the logo for Star Citizen is halfway out of the shot as if it has been caught trying to sneak out while no one was looking.
And then there’s the acting! Erin’s entire skeleton is slumping, taking on the appearance of an abandoned scoop of ice cream melting on the sidewalk (symbolically linked to a childhood joy ruined carelessly that no one will ever even attempt to save). Even in a single frame, the drama is almost too much to take.
Five stars. Almost as good as Wing Commander. Needs more space bulldozers.
I watched that “gameplay” and the main source of any interest was the guy worrying that he’d lose his ship and real-money weapons due to bugs. When he returns to Olisar he worries that he hasn’t done a good enough parking job to keep his ship, so he makes multiple auto-land attempts which all try to kill him. At the end he reveals that he bought two M7A weapons for real money, lost them both to bugs, and has now bought a third.
$15.30 * 3 = $45.90
I’ve been wearing 3 jackets because of Star Citizen, and I’ve been pretty warm this winter.
Nothing personnel, kid, as streetroller bludgeons croberts with lawsuit paperwork
Chris and Ortwin's parking spots appear in Lando's day in the life video
When ever i re spawn i am this small ball i can’t interact with anything i am in fact trapped in my room that you spawn in.I am aware that i am no special snowflake in this issue and was wondering if anybody knew when i would be cured?
Virtual Captain
Hey it looks like OldSchoolCmdr is posting again. All day it seems.
There are 4 specific and highly damaging causes of action in this complaint.
From my reading of the complaint and the response, I can safely say that even though CIG never responded to two of them - which itself are sufficient grounds for the motion to dismiss to be denied - CIG isn’t likely to prevail on any of them if this goes to a jury.
It doesn’t matter if CIG were to use CryEngine exclusively or not, the crux of the matter is that the GLA was never terminated, and thus, all its conditions and warranties, remain in full force and effect. What remains then are how many of the conditions were breached, and what damages can be awarded for each breach. The most damaging breach would be IP infringement if it is found that SQ42 was sold as a separate title, as it’s not covered as such in the GLA. This is the same as Microsoft giving a corp 10 enterprise licenses for Windows Server, then through an audit find that they have 15 copies installed. Each of the 5 excess copies is an infringement that is subject to fees and costs.
Even if CIG owns a license they decided not to use, it doesn’t release them from the other obligations in the GLA. Those being the other causes of action such as providing code changes, displaying the Crytek logo, developing more than one title etc.
The case will not just hinge on the disputed exclusivity of their use of the engine, nor on whether or not SQ42 is a separate project. It will hinge on the spirit and intent of the GLA. The courts are used to seeing these types of disputes all the time, and when the wording is ambiguous or confusing, the judges always tend to defer to spirit and intent.
As per the GLA, SQ42 was never agreed to be a separate title. It was defined as being a feature of the “GAME” (see 1.6 & Exhibit 2). That’s all the court is going to look at. What is in the preamble isn’t important, in much the same way that Space Citizen is the name in the preamble, but Star Citizen is what is defined in the definition of “GAME”.
After the GLA was signed, modules like Star Marine, Arena Commander, ArcCorp, Hangar were never planned to be separate “features” or they too would have been listed. They came about as per the increase in scope of the project, and the way they later decided to develop those parts separately and as “features” of Star Citizen.
The GLA is going with the spirit and intent of the original campaign which talked about a persistent universe (Star Citizen) and space combat (Squadron 42) features of a single “GAME” that was pitched. This is what makes SQ42 a feature of that game, just like the others. If they decided to sell Star Marine separately, even though it would launch from the same launcher as Star Citizen, that would be considered a breach of the GLA. They are only allowed to sell a single collective set called the “GAME” which includes Star Citizen, Squadron 42, and server mods. Neither Squadron 42, nor the server mods, were described as being the primary component like Star Citizen. They are features of the “GAME”.
In my opinion, all of Crytek’s causes of action have some merit, and for that reason, the motion to dismiss is going to be dismantled by the judge, and the case going to be set for trial shortly thereafter, if not in the same ruling. This will give Crytek the ability to start depositions and discovery, as this is a fast track case filing.
The judge may decide not to give an opinion ruling on the “exclusivity” issue because there may be issues of intent which can only be revealed and explained during discovery and deposition. I say this because section 2.1.2 isn’t as ambiguous (I believe the wording requires that CIG exclusively use CryEngine for the “GAME”) as people think that it is. And that’s why cases go to appeals, and in some cases all the way to the SCOTUS. To me, even 2.1.2 is less important than 2.4 because without the termination (see 8.1, 8.2, 8.3) even if CIG decided to switch engines, it could be said that they breached the GLA by that section alone. Plus they already went on the record admitting that they switched to a competing (there is no argument that any engine other than CryEngine could be considered as a competing engine) game engine, Lumberyard. So even if the judge ruled that CIG were not required to exclusively use CryEngine in the “GAME”, it doesn’t mean that they can then ignore the other conditions of the GLA - which remains in full force and effect, as per the strict termination conditions.
Whether the case goes to trial or is settled, depends on the ruling of the motion to dismiss. I don’t see how CIG would take this all the way to a jury because any ruling against them for any of the causes of action, can lead to millions of Dollars in damages and attorney fees. So it would make sense for them to settle if they can. The down side of that is, settling a case from a position of weakness, and against a firm like Skadden, is not the best position to be in. Plus their liability insurance company is likely to deny their claims if there is finding that they intentionally breached any part of the GLA. And that could make things worse for them in terms of how much they can settle the matter for. Plus, most business liability insurances, have cap limits.
Computing physics and collisions for other ships and players when the server could just tell you were they are (the server just disagrees with you, anyway, which is why debris jitters so much, or hoverbikes spaz out if you’re not the rider). Computing anything at all when these players and ships are not visible to you.
In bold is the most mind-blowing one. I couldn’t believe it when I saw the IFCS code in that bugsmashers. With a straight face Bugshmasherman casually mentioned how his client has to calculate the real-time physics of every other player on the server. I thought I was gonna shit. Does he even know that physics processing is usually the most computationally taxing part of a game?
Then again, this is CIG. They break all boundaries. I have no doubt their “Atmospheric Fluid Dynamic Argon Processing Engine” is orders of magnitude more expensive than dumb old physics.
CIG's concierge event is on May 4th
That pretty much settles the debate between the incredulous “who would buy that” and “lol they’ll be gone in two seconds” camps.
I’m glad there are at least between 350 and 1150 complete idiots still invested in dreams.
… and I’m getting worse in private
This is one fucked up community.
Man I gotta be honest.
I don’t even think I can take the hate of this shit.
TheAgent
here is the thread’s Not-So-Secret Santa Streetroller Giveaway
no, no we ain’t giving away streetroller. keep it in your pants ladies
say something nice to say about our friend to cheer him up! I mean we’re already kinda doing that anyway but whatever shut up just let me have this.
Not-So-Secret Santa Streetroller Giveaway
PO Box “That Star Citizen Thread”
Beverly Hills, CA
90210
Dear Streetroller,
You may not know me, but I’m sure you’ve heard about me from a manifesto that seems to see the light of day from time to time in this thread. I’m the Stimperor, and it is with a heavy heart (and a few amputated fingers and blood) that I pen this letter to you. You may have preconceived notions of me that may make me look unfavorable to a few people. But don’t let those stories of torture, vivisection, liquid skeletons and other atrocities cloud your judgement. I’m actually an okay guy. It isn’t easy ruling trillions of people.
The reason I’m writing you this letter is to say that the comments horrified me and sickened me in ways I never thought possible. In light of this I might review some of my own procedures of rule and adjust if necessary.
If you are ever in the neighborhood of the 4th Stimpire, stop in for a visit and be my guest at a banquet featuring civil meat. Unless you were born on July 14th and then I suggest we remain pen pals.
To me, Star Citizen has always been about ethics. If CIG wants to comprehensively fail at making a video game, that’s fine, so long as it’s on their own dime. But they compulsively misrepresent their product, and openly lie and misdirect the public as an intentional marketing strategy in order to lure prospective customers. They continually manipulate existing customers with false promises, high-pressure sales techniques, and aggressive retcon with the sole purpose of upselling. I share in your disgust with CIG’s predatory marketing and sales tactics. We all do.
But you have shown the courage, intelligence, and determination to put your ethics into action as a means to promote positive change, and that makes you a great person. Your story is inspiring, and nobody can take that from you.
One thing I’ve learned about shitizens: The ugliness of their response is directly proportional to the perceived threat you pose to their delusion. You know you have a physical disability. But the fact that they would stoop so low as to exploit that as a rhetorical technique is a perfect expression of their intellectual impotence and the deep subconscious anxiety that subsumes their brittle belief system. It’s an indefensible indictment against their character. It can’t feel good, but whatever the outcome of your lawsuit, you’ve already won. Their flailing insults, their ignorant rants, are but roses thrown from the cheap seats during your victory lap.
All the best,
Toops**
Not-So-Secret Santa Streetroller Giveaway
PO Box “That Star Citizen Thread”
Beverly Hills, CA
90210
Dear Streetroller,
The terrible people commenting on your video are some sad, hurt people. They would think they’re powerful because they’re getting in some sick burns on the internet but they are largely losers playing life on Easy Mode.
You wanted to hold CIG to task. We all shitpost here for giggles but you want to actually do something to hold Chris Roberts to account. You’ve shown actual character as a person putting yourself out there in front of a largely toxic cesspool of fanatics. If you weren’t you, or what I know from your short video, I would worry. But by minute 20 I knew that you’ve got this. No matter the outcome, you’re going to grow from the experience. People are telling you not to read comments but that’s your choice to make. Your feelings on this matter of CIG, accountability and self are your own and I think they’re pretty cool too.
The reason the lowest scum are commenting on your disability is they’re so threatened by you. They’re willing to throw everything they’ve got at you because they are just so fucking scared that you’re going to hold their precious multinational corporation to the fire if even a little bit. They’re coming at you, and what they’re bringing is largely hot air and garbage. You’re going to do you. The court system will sort things out with CIG, and they will continue to be tiny people because that’s the limit of their imagination and skill set. Really I just wanted to say
Keep doing what you’re doing.
Not-So-Secret Santa Streetroller Giveaway
PO Box “That Star Citizen Thread”
Beverly Hills, CA
90210
Dear Streetroller,
What you need is a nice hot tub to soak away all your worries. I think it’s in the Constellation spaceship. Or will be. One day. I mean maybe. It probably won’t. It was never a promise. If anything, it was the opposite of a promise. The hot tub was never meant seriously, it was a parody. It was always going to be emergent gameplay, you don’t really need the hot tub to enjoy the hot tub when you think about it. So yeah.
Boomshanka.
Not-So-Secret Santa Streetroller Giveaway
PO Box “That Star Citizen Thread”
Beverly Hills, CA
90210
Dear Streetroller,
Your hair is fantastic. As someone who thinks their hair is beginning to thin, this is a very grudging compliment.
On a more serious note, don’t let these bastards get you down. They are terrible people. You know that. You’re better than them. You’re better than most of us. Most of us see Star Citizen unfolding and think “This is going to be good for a laugh” and settle down to watch the car crash. Some people who fell for the initial spiel are getting their money out, and good for them. A few people are doing something to help others, like Beet running r/starcitizen_refunds. You are the only person I know of who has said “This is not acceptable. I’m not going to play by their terms, I’m going to hold them accountable to the morals and laws to which they should be held accountable. I am going to show that their refund policy is bullshit and that Chris Roberts is a liar. By the time I’m finished, Roberts being a con artist won’t be a joke, it will be legal fact.” Keep doing what you’re doing.
Oh, and I find it interesting that straight away, they’ve assumed your penis doesn’t work. I’ve found bad people generally project their worst failings onto others, showing in this case how Citizens really are a bunch of useless dicks.
s back to their preferred SC homes
