“Stolen ships, no matter how well the theft, will not be a long-term thing. You get to enjoy them for the session, but those ships will not be returning when you log back in. Stealing ships should be a short-term goal. Joyriding, piracy or selling them for scrap, not for growing your own fleet.”
The gradual walking back of promised features and gameplay continues:
Phew. All those ships bought with real money are a lot safer now. Pay2Win hype!
Hahahahahahaha
That one post wrecks countless space dreams.
I expect that admission to be explained away shortly.
Just wow. There should be riots going on all over spectrum right now. Stick a fork in persistence, it’s done.
Even GTA lets you keep stolen vehicles. As long as the garage doesn’t eat them.
Stolen ships disappearing. That’s a fundamental change in so many game mechanics.
It’s actually a pretty wild admission. It blows apart persistence.
The whole absurdity of this project (and of course more recent events) never ceases to amaze me.
I like how reddit is coming up with ways to keep the stolen ship “alive” by having members of your org never signing off. Like passing the torch.
The problem is from a simple standpoint, how does the server know who “possesses” the ship in the first place? You and 10 (haha) others board and fight your way in while you rape and pillage. Does it know that the ten of you in the physics grid are the owners now?
They try to solve one problem which pisses backers off and it creates ten more what-ifs. It’s just a fucking laugh riot with their total lack of understanding of basic game mechanics and what can happen when you have an idiot at the helm waving his hands.
Give us more money and we’ll both be able to add more and build the game faster.
Or remove even the hint of all those wild dream features we suggested you were buying in addition to never delivering on even the most basic form of the game.
It’s a flip of the coin really.
lol, the PvP slider
CIG dev: What’s the PvP slider?
Oh, snap…
Maybe if you’re going to be answering questions for a hyper obsessed fanbase that literally has had nothing of consequence to do but theorycraft and slave over game design/features for 5 years, you should have actual knowledge of the subject instead of telling them “if that was a thing”.
It’s like millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and then perished when they realized that their default shitty anti-p2w argument just got destroyed by CIG themselves.
Will Maiden is a fucking genius. And CIG, as usual, is proving to be 2 steps ahead of the game. The tactic is simple.
1. Dev/Community Manager makes an obscure offhand comment that clashes with the insane imaginary game mechanic that the whales have dreamed up for themselves (egged on by Chris).
2. Massive shitstorm blows up on reddit with heated bickering between the backers over mechanics that are impossible to implement anyway.
3. CR steps forth, addressing the masses. “Good people, you have spoken and I have heard. That offhand comment by that Dev was taken completely out of context, OF COURSE we will be implementing that insane impossible mechanic that whales are losing their shit over. It’s totally part of our “subsumption/Item2.0/Insertbuzzword” system. What that Dev was trying to say is that we are aiming (no promises) to have only the foundations implemented in 3.0/4.0/5.0 etc. It is an organic and iterative player driven system that will grow in complexity over time once the game launches. You’ve trusted us to develop the best damn space game ever and we’re holding up our end of the bargain, we need you guys to continue supporting us so that all your dreams can come true. (Insert shameless plug for the latest concept sale).
4. Backers fall over themselves praising CIG. Mass reddit threads appear “Thank you CIG / CIG Listens to us / This is already the best space game ever OMG”. Backers start mass buying the latest concept in shame over ever doubting CIG and the vision. Any additional dissent is quickly shouted down by the zealous fans.
5. CIG continues to walk back on any “promises”, defended vehemently by hardcore backers as they do.
Its fucking genius. Textbooks will be written about CIG in future.
Who cares, the game is in early development, devs are busy doing a spin-off already. They already spent all the money, SC never coming so who cares what you can or can’t do.
This tells me they don’t know where to take true persistence or how to develop it.
Ok, let’s talk professions!
Pirate: You cannot truly steal ships anymore.
Explorer: 5 systems at launch, golf-club.
Trader: Lol, your computer cannot handle the load caused by the physics-aware cargo
Bounty Hunter / Combat: 7-12 FPS during dogfights
Mining: Delayed to 3.13.23.3!
Repair: See mining, add a year.
Information Specialist: This one is fine!
Passenger Transport: This one is too!
Space Paparazzo: Working as intended.
So, obviously, you want to infiltrate passenger transports to take photos of famous people drinking hairy roberts to sell to information specialists.
Everything seems fine, it’ll be an engrossing game.
Beer4theBeerGod
It’s a perfect example of how the worst thing that could ever happen to Star Citizen is for it to come out. Statements like that are incredibly damaging because there’s no way to handwave it away as an alpha problem. If you don’t like the flight model, or the game is boring, or you’ve spent ten minutes trying to get out of your ship and you can’t because you’ve t-posed into the floor, you can always tell yourself that the game is still in development and then spend more money maintain enthusiasm. On the other hand if an actual developer says that something will be a certain way, and that particular way flies in the face of literally years of promises and lies marketing, then that shakes the core confidence and forces the backer to question what else about the project might not be what they paid literally thousands of dollars for. Some might have an epiphany and desperately try to squeeze what they can out of the refund process, others will accept the change and find a way to reconstruct their illusion so that this is a good thing, and meanwhile we’ll keep laughing.
I don’t understand why they didn’t copy Eve’s mechanics for ship theft and replacement. You’d have to tweak it to reflect Star Citizen and it’s lack of manufacturing, sure, but it seems like a reasonable starting place. Grandfathered early backers have lifetime insurance on certain hulls, everyone else has to pay each time, everyone has a delay for ship replacement to impede abuse. Less-secure space has a longer delay to deter abuse by pirates, lore it up by saying its more dangerous and therefore less trade there. Hell, copy Eve’s system security and space cops too, add real teeth to theft in high-security space. The mechanics don’t seem insurmountable and makes me wonder if the real reason for the theft change is that they can’t get it to work.
Bingo. They lack the will and/or the ability to actually get persistence designed, let alone working. I mean fucksake, they still can’t figure doors out. And ramps? Not even remotely imaginable. I mean they just now started trying to figure out how to respawn in your ship when you die.
The moment on Saturday when WTFOsaurus found out about the piracy change:
“One of the things that always made me most excited about Star Citizen… It is… Chris Roberts answering questions. That’s what gave me faith in the game, it’s that person in charge of the game willing to sit there and talk for literally hours about his plans, and answer questions. And so, I was really really happy to see Chris on RTV this week for the entire hour he answered questions, I really, really hope that they do this more often and I’m hoping everyone pushes them to do that more often because – I know Chris is really busy… And I know that his team need him a lot, and he does a lot of work, BUT, when it comes down to it other backers are kind of part of the team, too, and WE need Chris, too. Chris honestly gives faith in the project, in my opinion.”
Never forget that someone actually posted this in earnest and called the thread “Every Time I Listen to Chris Roberts Talk for 20+ Minutes”:
The Titanic
1: Make networking mesh like i want
2: do it again
3: do it until 10,000 people can play my twitch shooter together with massive fleet battles with tv ships live streaming to YouTube and face over ip works and I can do it over my ship comm to another ship while also taking a dump in my space toilet while outside NPCs are fighting over which virtual but full length movie they want to watch while another player is mixing a drink and the shadow of our ship hovers over players on the ground having a war in a tunnel created by a passing sandworm and the lands defense mechanism is automatically seeing them and calling the space police to come and start fighting them all while the situation is being broadcast to the landowners ship somewhere else so it’s piped into his mobi glass thing and I want all this at 80 FPS and it’s also VR enabled because you guys do that part too I think
4: refactor all of 3 because I just changed the skeleton
5: redo 3 because I want the AI to see and smell and react to people dynamically
6: I want the AI over network to be indistinguishable from human players
7: I just had an awesome dream from this cocaine so we’re restarting at 1 again today but this is 3 years into 1-6 so I’m planning for it now on the roadmap
8: hey hey, demo coming so I need all you dumb fuckers to stop everything and work on this cool space station that’s full of Giger Aliens for my awesome idea demo I just had, we’ll finish up networking in a few months after citcon but I need this fucking demo
9: the demo was fucking shit and everybody laughed at me and it’s your fault
10: alright let’s look at this again we need to get over 6 players in an instance at 14 FPS so we’re going to start at 1 again and this time I don’t care if you have a paper due for your college classes you fuckers will get this shit right or I’ll destroy your career before it begins and I swear if you fuck ups can’t build this “network mesh” that I came up with you’re all fired. These ideas will make it happen but you need to try harder if you want to be on my team I have no time for your excuses and your ignorance
G0RF
[YOUTUBE: Disco talks Game Dev with the Space Bros
Paging SomethingJones: I’m only 2 minutes in and already slack-jawed.
HoboLando: “Uhhm, aaah, he’s got his work.” starts to immediately derail the conversation by joking about his own ego, and hey look there’s syphilis in the chat!
Ben’s out.
Why. Just WHY the fuck to these rabid fans spend their entire day rationalizing CIG’s incompetence and blatant misinformation? I will never, ever understand what’s in it for them.
That’s what happens when you tie your identity into a product, into the dream. Insults to the dream become insults to you. Criticism becomes self-criticism. People are very bad at that and nerds who love space games are the worst of all.
They’re also invested financially and emotionally, and worse still this is often to get a social advantage over other backers by having the biggest spaceship. You can’t admit fault or you lose that status.
Combine this with misplaced reverence for the Crobber and you have a recipe for utter and complete idiocy that will rationalise almost anything.
Jake Ross spoke memorably of the CIG LA Big Summit that set that year’s agenda and priorities. There doesn’t appear to be a bigger plan than what gets worked up each January to last them until December.
Later quote:
“We’re trying very, very hard not to get you guys’ hopes up.”
(but at Ubernerd’s hilarious reaction… He looks like Orson Wells performing Donald Sutherland’s final shot in Invasion of the Body Snatchers.)
Oh my lord this is just insane. Insane that he’s bristling about this. You can’t profit from selling the hope and then cry foul when you deliver the ‘nope!’ and people call you out for it, Lando!
It’s called basic accountability and if Chris had a conscience about your ill-gotten gains you’d feel shame for it. I mean get serious man— you’ve raised a Rockstar Level budget, you talk smack about AAA publishers and say “come at us!”, and then you want to bemoan people judging your delivery record against your own stated targets? Get over yourselves. You want the freedom to be haughty, bold and ambitious, right? Then how on earth can you expect to be measured gently, tenderly, cautiously?
Chris Roberts — YOUR SPOKEMAN — set the unrealistic expectations you chafe against. You’re mad because people are parsing your newer content for features some Dev said would be in 3.2 when it might not be? Guess what? Chris set the original 3.2 expectations a year and a half ago. And you reaped a fortune from that, remember? And then you guys delivered 1/4th of Chris’s 3.0 a year late in an unplayable state and 3.1, 3.2, 3.3 all got pushed back and they’re still getting pushed back because you keep changing your targets and have no fixed plans. Maybe you should give back 75% of the money you earned off the back of that Hype before you whine about being held accountable for falling short.
Yes it’s a double edged sword Lando, maybe Chris should stop gripping it by the blade and then complaining when you cut yourselves swinging it.
Listen to him talking about how they want to be judged on style not just substance. Don’t take my summary of it for granted — hear it in his own words. He’s complaining about things being lost in summarization and via subjective parsing. Hear it for yourselves and make your own judgments.
This is a pretty incredible showing from Lando. He’s more or less making an impassioned defense of emotionally manipulative agitprop, seemingly without a touch of self-awareness. I always thought Lando was a bit more of a pusher than an abuser but it seems like he’s been saving a few punch bowls of kool-aid for personal use.
Virtual Captain
‘The summaries and “recaps” that parse our information the way that that person understood it and then passes that information on to others and then people say “I don’t want to watch 17 minute Calling All Devs I’d rather watch a 1 minute summary”’
lol wow is 2018 going to be the year CIG starts throwing shills under the bus? You backers and your expectations!
So petty that Lando is jealous the “So called recaps” stealing all his youtube views holy shit this section is unbelievable. Wait till I get the Goon recap youtube going we’ll see how much that ruffles his feathers.
This is classic cargo cult nonsense. Lando, in his obvious inexperience, doesn’t understand what iteration means. He doesn’t know what planning looks like. He’s never been a part of the design process. He’s repeating words he’s heard and/or read a blog about, and the way he mis-uses them belies his absolute rookie status in game development.
Agile development doesn’t mean “don’t plan.” It means plan to the best of your ability given the information you have now, but understand the plan will change as new information becomes available and plan for that too.
CIG is stuck in a Sisyphean hell of incompetence. Case in point, I know of a guy who was working on the ship’s damage states. He spent the better part of a year working and re-working the same problem because Chris kept changing the shit up. He worked diligently on this single feature for nearly a year before quitting, as there was no end to the re-works in sight.
Hmm some other interesting stats
Star Citizen delivered more game shows than many other game devs.
Quick reminder that they think grey boxing is not creating and testing gameplay loops with primitives as placeholders, but is instead not texturing models in a scene that does not do anything.
See this box? It’s grey! We’re grey boxing!
Star Citizen: If you pretend to build it, they will come.
Chris & Co are like “Oh man, this concept is really cool so it’s going to be like this!’ and then “Oh this other mechanic is really cool, so its going to be like this!” and they just keep spitting out “really cool ideas” to every person who asks a question, and eventually you have this fucking mountain of concepts and ideas that completely clash and will not work together……..but Chris has been on “the record” as saying “We are totally doing this” about a dozen times already. So when they finally get to that point (assuming they ever do) that implementing core mechanics comes due, everyone is going to be really pissed when they start realizing how much of “The Promise” isn’t going to work, or that THEIR version of Star Citizen they were pitched by CIG isn’t going to happen. It’s going to be awesome.
I honestly sort of hope CIG manages to stay afloat and release Star Citizen just so I can see the out rage from all the different kinds of backers when the dream palace comes crumbling down.
You can get a full refund by contacting CIG. Tips and guides can be found at /r/starcitizen_refunds. as opposed to losing 40% here.
Jester “Nazi Propaganda” 86 isn’t this altruistic so he is probably just trying to eliminate some of the grey market supply to keep his profits intact now that he got caught signalboosting himself on alt accounts.
Although if the Grey Market really is at 60% or less value then CIG should be worrying. That’s a direct barometer of the desire for their spaceships and the last time I checked it was still at 80% value. This is a big “LESS POTENTIAL SALES” sign if the confidence and excitement has eroded so much that the secondary market is having to have almost 50% discounts to move their jpegs.
“I don’t feel the writing is done very well at all it’s kindof rudimentary, you spend a lot of your time just walking around talking to people. That doesn’t interest me at all”
“There is just nothing about the vertical slice that excited me in any way”
“I’m just not personally enjoying 3.0 right now”
‘I have been actively looking for a job’ ‘I have an internship program that I’m going to contact’
OP: Hope CIG can pull off ocean effects like in Sea of Thieves
Beet: They’re mocapping the oceans right now OP, don’t worry it’s gonna be great
: Are they really?
Beet: Yeah, did you not see that ATV? They basically use a bunch of tiny and extremely lightweight beads to sit on top of the water and a top-view camera records the micro-changes in height as waves come through. It works really well in contained areas but CIG had to build a special rig to get it to work with actual segments of ocean.
:Holy crap, i hope this is real. It sounds amazing.
This is the company that mocapped the act of mopping the floor. That spent hundreds of hours mocapping a cafeteria.
I’d believe anything at this point.
Beet Wagon
Oh agreed. That’s kind of the point - the fact that “Chris Roberts is mocapping the ocean” isn’t immediately obvious as being fucking ridiculous speaks volumes about where we are today and why we’re here.
If CIG sells a submarine, I might have to tap out.
“Legacy” armor….
How do you have legacy armor for something that’s not even been in the game to be legacy?
Hi, it’s me. The super comfy metal straps holding your space soccer pads together behind your knee.
I’m the lipstick bandolier.
Antman’s first try at a helmet (which he threw away because he was embarassed by it) an old curtain that someone pulled out of a skip,some laser tag armour and a pair of designers wellies and office pants with shit stuck to them.
(but
at Ubernerd’s hilarious reaction… He looks like Orson Wells performing Donald Sutherland’s final shot in Invasion of the Body Snatchers.)
: Are they really?
